I don't particularly disagree with most of those assessments. But yesterday they had to play Bennison who - without wanting to be harsh - offers nothing and they also had two subs who barely played. Walmsley, Lomax and Makinson, even at 75/80%, is a huge improvement on that.

They're obviously on the decline just now and I think they've made mistakes by offering new contracts to older players and not blooding youngsters. Especially now they have so many injuries. But for this season they're not so over the hill that they can't be a serious threat in a big game. It's only 18 months since they were the undisputed top dogs, and I think back to all the times that Leeds looked over the hill during the season then turned it on at the business end.

I was definitely on the fence with that one - whether its 3 or 4 players it demonstrates the tough spot the St Helens squad is in. 

Agree with you there, he is on the downward curve although to be fair was superb last night. He has been used as a battering ram for years and is most certainly injury prone. 

Also agree with our set up. We have very few 22-28 aged players, Welsby and Lees being the only ones of note. We either have ageing players past their best- Lomax, Walmsley, Paasi, Clark, Sironen, Percival etc or ones who are very young with potential- Whitby, Robertson, Dagnall, Stephens. 


It's the 22-28 age range we desperately need.

They're where we found ourselves under Lam, with guys like Smithies, Havard, Partington, Shorrocks, Byrne etc being asked to do a seasoned pros job, guys like Clubb and Lockers being pretty much done and a number of players who just weren't up to standard. We compounded the issue trying to sign somebody like George Burgess to sit in that in between age group as well. A few Saints fans liked to revel in telling us none of our players were good enough and just as then, there are players in this Saints side that can take them forward and things can turn quickly but they've some rebuild job on in this next year or two. 

7 straight defeats to Wire, 3 each to us and Rovers, 2 straight to Leigh. Saints this season are mostly winning the games that they should win but not the games that they need to win if they expect to be thereabouts for trophies. I don't like to dump on coaches but I don't see how Wellens stays beyond this season without an absolute miracle. But, as others have said, this isn't a situation a change of coach will easily fix. It needs a squad rebuild as well.

I almost feel guilty questioning his inclusion Stu, as I think he probably would be in that group were it not for his wholehearted playing style. Even last night he was still throwing himself at the defence harder than most of your forwards! He's still a talent when fit but, unfortunately for him and Saints, he's not at his best often enough.